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	<title>JohnCheatham.com &#187; church</title>
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	<link>http://johncheatham.com</link>
	<description>A blog about theology, church, video, web, I.T., and randomness.</description>
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		<title>Will work for, well, money</title>
		<link>http://johncheatham.com/2010/03/25/will-work-for-money/</link>
		<comments>http://johncheatham.com/2010/03/25/will-work-for-money/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Mar 2010 00:45:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>John Cheatham</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[blog]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[family]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[job]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Journey]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[personal]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[sebts]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[seminary]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johncheatham.com/?p=330</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So, we&#8217;re getting settled in here in good ol&#8217; GA. We&#8217;re in the Lawrenceville area hanging with my grandmother-in-law and aunt-in-law (whom I usually speak of as &#8220;my wife&#8217;s grandmother and aunt&#8221; since the alternative is a mouthful). I&#8217;m looking for jobs in the area, if anyone is interested. I have my portfolio here on [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, we&#8217;re getting settled in here in good ol&#8217; GA. We&#8217;re in the Lawrenceville area hanging with my grandmother-in-law and aunt-in-law (whom I usually speak of as &#8220;my wife&#8217;s grandmother and aunt&#8221; since the alternative is a mouthful). I&#8217;m looking for jobs in the area, if anyone is interested. I have my portfolio here on the site, if you&#8217;re curious what I&#8217;ve done. The strange thing about looking for jobs is I have a very diverse skillset. For example:</p>
<ul>
<li>I&#8217;m finishing up my Master of Divinity with Biblical Counseling from <a href="http://sebts.edu/">Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary</a>, and would love to work in a church or a parachurch ministry giving counsel to people from the Bible.</li>
<li>I&#8217;ve been on staff and before that volunteering at <a href="http://takeajourney.org/">Journey Church</a> (and also working at my seminary) doing production stuff &#8211; video and audio editing, lighting programming, web, and all that sort of stuff. I love tech.</li>
<li>For over a decade, I&#8217;ve built websites (sometimes for fun, sometimes as a job or part of a job) and I would consider myself an advanced dabbler. Along with a friend, I&#8217;ve maintained a web host for a few years now.</li>
<li>Another area I love is making computers and tech stuff in general work. While in college, I actually was one of the first employees of the <a href="http://www.ngcsu.edu/helpdesk/">NGCSU Help Desk</a>.</li>
</ul>
<p>Diverse, huh? If anyone reading this knows of any jobs in the Atlanta (especially Northeast GA) area, please <a href="http://johncheatham.com/contact">shoot me a note</a>.</p>
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		<title>Advance09 Videos</title>
		<link>http://johncheatham.com/2009/07/22/advance09-videos/</link>
		<comments>http://johncheatham.com/2009/07/22/advance09-videos/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Jul 2009 18:18:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>John Cheatham</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[blog]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mark Driscoll]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[video]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johncheatham.com/?p=278</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I attended a conference a few months back that was incredible. Now anyone who wants to can watch the sessions for free! Check it out.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I attended a conference a few months back that was incredible. Now anyone who wants to can watch the sessions for free! <a href="http://advance.vintage21.com/?p=144">Check it out</a>.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>The Church I See &#8211; Video</title>
		<link>http://johncheatham.com/2009/06/15/the-church-i-see-video/</link>
		<comments>http://johncheatham.com/2009/06/15/the-church-i-see-video/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jun 2009 02:36:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>John Cheatham</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[blog]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Journey]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[sermons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[video]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johncheatham.com/?p=252</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Pastor Jimmy spoke this message a few weeks ago. I just wanted to repost it here &#8211; to test my video embedding and because it&#8217;s a great message.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pastor Jimmy spoke this message a few weeks ago. I just wanted to repost it here &#8211; to test my video embedding and because it&#8217;s a great message.</p>
<p><a href="http://johncheatham.com/2009/06/15/the-church-i-see-video/"><em>Click here to view the embedded video.</em></a></p>
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		<title>More on Multi-Site</title>
		<link>http://johncheatham.com/2009/05/05/more-on-multi-site/</link>
		<comments>http://johncheatham.com/2009/05/05/more-on-multi-site/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 23:23:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>John Cheatham</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[blog]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Journey]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[multi-site]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[technology]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johncheatham.com/?p=224</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I recently got a copy of the eJournal by 9 Marks (named from the book 9 Marks of a Healthy Church by Mark Dever of Capitol Hill Baptist Church). It is the official &#8220;multi-site&#8221; issue. (Check it out in it&#8217;s entirety here.) The blog post I reposted here by J.D. Greear is in the issue, [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I recently got a copy of the eJournal by 9 Marks (named from the book 9 Marks of a Healthy Church by Mark Dever of Capitol Hill Baptist Church). It is the official &#8220;multi-site&#8221; issue. (<a href="http://involve.9marks.org/site/DocServer/eJournal200963MayJune.pdf?docID=641">Check it out in it&#8217;s entirety here.</a>) The blog post I <a href="http://johncheatham.com/2009/01/19/summit-church/">reposted here</a> by J.D. Greear is in the issue, as are others for an against multi-site. You should most definitely read it in its entirety. I will when I get a sec. However, I&#8217;ve been skimming the cons to multi-site and noticed something interesting. First, here&#8217;s a list of the articles against multi-site:</p>
<ul>
<li>&#8220;Nine Reasons I Don&#8217;t Like Multi-site Churches, from a Guy Who Should&#8221; By Thomas White &#8211; A young, tech-savvy seminary professor explains why he&#8217;s not getting on board the multi-site revolution.</li>
<li>&#8220;Exegetical Critique of Multi-Site: Disassembling the Church?&#8221; By Grant Gaines &#8211; A pastor-scholar weighs the exegetical arguments in favor of the multi-site church and finds them wanting.</li>
<li>&#8220;Theological Critique of Multi-Site: Leadership Is the Church&#8221; By Jonathan Leeman &#8211; The local church on earth is constituted by a gathering of Christians, which means the multi-site and multi-service “church” is not a church, but an association of churches.</li>
<li>&#8220;Historical Critique of Multi-Site: Not Over My Dead Body&#8221; By Bobby Jamieson &#8211; Regardless of the fact that multi-site churches haven&#8217;t existed for most of the past four hundred years, historic Congregationalists and Baptists have a lot to say against them.</li>
<li>&#8220;The Alternative to Multi-Site: Why Don&#8217;t We Plant?&#8221; By Jonathan Leeman &#8211; The multi-site church phenomenon looks like a capitulation to consumeristic culture. We should plant instead.</li>
</ul>
<p>Now, I&#8217;m not going to address everything brought up in them, but the first article is really short and digestable, so I&#8217;m going to tackle the nine points addressed in it. Here goes:</p>
<h3>1. A Contradiction In Terms</h3>
<p>Here Thomas White argues that the Greek word ecclesia (the word we translate &#8220;church&#8221;) means &#8220;gathering.&#8221; He then says &#8220;The oft heard mantra “one church many locations” is a contradiction in terms.&#8221; Since that&#8217;s what Journey is, I want to speak to that. The church is the assembled people &#8211; the gathered people. When <a href="http://www.takeajourney.org">Journey</a> gathers at <a href="http://www.takeajourney.org/northeast">NE</a>, it&#8217;s a gathering of Journey. Same at  <a href="http://www.takeajourney.org/northwest">NW</a>. It&#8217;s not all of the gathering, as not all members of Journey gather every week. Other churches generally have four times more people on &#8220;membership&#8221; roles than those that actually attend. Journey is about the exact inverse of that, I believe. Maybe those other churches should be looking for where the rest of their church went before they start asking if what we&#8217;re doing is biblical. I&#8217;m just saying.</p>
<h3>2. Spiritual Colonization</h3>
<p>The argument here is &#8220;mini-dioceses&#8221; that rule the campuses from a central location. Well, at Journey we don&#8217;t have a &#8220;central location&#8221; besides that of Raleigh (currently). Our goal is to reach Raleigh for Christ and there&#8217;s not a specific area of Raleigh that we&#8217;re based out of. While we spend more time during the week at NE, that&#8217;s just because we can&#8217;t get into NW during the week &#8211; it meets in a theater. Campus locations will grow as we launch new ones and such, but our location is Raleigh. Not a &#8220;central location.&#8221;</p>
<h3>3. Encouraging Consumerism</h3>
<p>He argues that the more locations, the more variety you get and people can shop around. I think consumerism is way more likely in a church with one location. Case in point: mega-churches. When we launch a campus, we need a ton of people to get involved to volunteer there or fill the places at the current campus that were emptied by the launch team. At Journey, we have hundreds more volunteers than single-site churches.</p>
<h3>4. Cannibalizing the Body of Christ</h3>
<p>He points out a multi-site that &#8220;partnered&#8221; with a smaller church, then replaced it&#8217;s staff and sold it&#8217;s stuff. A agree with his point that this is a bad thing. However, I&#8217;ve never seen this happen and I suspect it&#8217;s not a common occurrence.</p>
<h3>5. Shepherds Who Don&#8217;t Know the Sheep</h3>
<p>This point addresses Hebrews 13:17 where ministers of the gospel will be held accountable for their sheep and how can a video minister do that with sheep he doesn&#8217;t even know? Well, first of all, a pastor that rightly divides the Word of God can be certain that the Word will not return void. Also, that&#8217;s what campus pastors are for. At Journey, either campus will find a number of pastors (<a href="http://jimmycarroll.org">Jimmy Carroll</a>, <a href="http://crothy.com">Paul Crouthamel</a>, <a href="http://robwetzel.com">Rob Wetzel</a>, <a href="http://smoothvia.com">Smooth Via</a>, and Paul Callaghan) weekly with whom they can speak and pray. Also, they can set up meetings with them throughout the week. It&#8217;s called &#8220;doing life together.&#8221;</p>
<h3>6. Understanding Planting and Preacher Training</h3>
<p>He may have a slight point here. We do need to focus on planting churches as well as campuses. That&#8217;s why Journey gives to multiple church planting agencies. Who knows, maybe we&#8217;ll even plant one ourselves. Partnerships are especially helpful at church planting &#8211; shared resources are great. <a href="http://acts29network.org">Acts 29</a> is a great organization that does this well.</p>
<h3>7. No Scriptural Support!!!</h3>
<p>Ah, I most definitely disagree here. While the church that was formed out of Peter&#8217;s sermon might have fit within Solomon&#8217;s Portico at first, remember that &#8220;the Lord was adding to their number daily&#8221; and they &#8220;were going house to house.&#8221; Does White really think that they organized meetings indefinitely at Solomon&#8217;s Portico? Also, could thousands of people really hear? Did they have to all meet together weekly to be called a church? Bi-weekly? Monthly?</p>
<h3>8. Unanswered Questions</h3>
<p>Since he gives questions, I guess I&#8217;ll give answers.</p>
<ol>
<li><strong>What happens when this generation’s gifted communicators leave? </strong>
<ul>
<li>One of the other pastors at that church will take over. This is more biblical that &#8220;hiring out&#8221; a pastor like many churches do. If the people go there just to hear that communicator, they shouldn&#8217;t be there anyway.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><strong>When they retire or pass to heaven, will these franchised churches of today lead to the disenfranchised religious of tomorrow? </strong>
<ul>
<li>Some could, but the ones who grounded their people in the Word of God will stand firm because Christ is their cornerstone.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><strong>Will these locations stand vacant symbolizing a failed religious experiment? </strong>
<ul>
<li>The one&#8217;s who worshiped the communicator and not Christ probably will. And that will be a good thing.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><strong>What if one location wants to call its own live preacher? Will that be allowed or does the founding assembly own the property and make the decisions? </strong>
<ul>
<li>If a church starts fighting over ownership, then they need to repent and turn from that. The body is just that, a body. They should function as one. They should also submit to the one (or ones &#8211; plurality of elders, anyone?) called to be their leader(s). If that many people have an issue with the elder(s)&#8217; decision, then maybe that part of the body should meet with them as fellow brothers in Christ.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><strong>Could a remote location choose to begin piping in a new rising star with no connection to the current branches? </strong>
<ul>
<li>That would be a decision for the church as a whole to make. A campus is not separate from the church &#8211; it is a part. This does make it easier to have someone fill the pulpit who can actually preach when the pastor is out of town. Or even better, our pastor was in Uganda recently and Smooth uploaded part of a message from him to the internet. I then downloaded and Jimmy preached for about 10 minutes from Uganda to both of our campuses. Then we played the rest of his pre-recorded message. He was able to preach while being halfway around the world! Most single-site churches would never even think of that, much less have the technology for it.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li><strong>Why not just plant churches? </strong>
<ul>
<li>We plan on doing this as well. The multi-site model helps us be wiser with our resources.</li>
</ul>
</li>
</ol>
<p>Wow. That was fun. Next?</p>
<h3>9. Priorities</h3>
<p>This is an important thing to keep in mind. Let us not strive after numbers and instead strive after reaching Raleigh, and North Carolina, and the world for Christ. It&#8217;s always good to keep the Gospel as the main thing &#8211; we&#8217;re called to use our talents and God-given abilities spread the Gospel (Good News) of Christ. And remember, God doesn&#8217;t always call the equipped &#8211; He also equips the called (a.k.a. all believers)!</p>
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		<title>My Own Clarification</title>
		<link>http://johncheatham.com/2009/03/10/my-own-clarification/</link>
		<comments>http://johncheatham.com/2009/03/10/my-own-clarification/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Mar 2009 20:41:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>John Cheatham</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[blog]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Journey]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[sbc]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[sebts]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[seminary]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johncheatham.com/?p=189</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[This might as well be considered a series. Don&#8217;t usually do that. However, Smooth posted a wrap-up to his posts that I&#8217;ve previously mentioned. I just want to respond to one point of his wrap-up. Clarification #3: When I say that I&#8217;m done with the SBC, I mean that I&#8217;m done fighting for it and identifying [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This might as well be considered a series. Don&#8217;t usually do that. However, <a href="http://smoothvia.com/">Smooth</a> posted a wrap-up to his posts that I&#8217;ve <a href="http://smoothvia.typepad.com/smoothvia/2009/02/on-the-effectiveness-of-reforming-from-within.html">previously</a> <a href="http://smoothvia.typepad.com/smoothvia/2009/02/wish-you-would-step-back-from-that-ledge-my-friend.html">mentioned</a>. I just want to respond to one point of his wrap-up.</p>
<blockquote><p><span>Clarification #3:</span> When I say that I&#8217;m done with the SBC, I mean that<span> I&#8217;m done fighting for it and identifying with it</span>. I don&#8217;t hate the convention. I don&#8217;t harbor any resentment towards the churches, church members, committee members, and Directors of Ph.D. studies, etc. who have intentionally marginalized me, belittled me, or treated me unfairly. <a href="http://http://smoothvia.typepad.com/smoothvia/2009/02/on-the-effectiveness-of-reforming-from-within.html#comments" target="_blank">Contrary to what Rev. Palmer may think</a>, I can say with some certainty that you will never find me holding a position within the SBC. I don&#8217;t mean that I am against the SBC or think that they are evil as <a href="http://johncheatham.com/2009/03/02/re-on-the-effectiveness-of-reforming-from-within/" target="_blank">my good buddy John seems to think I mean</a>. It may, however, be beyond saving. History will tell.</p></blockquote>
<p>I think I wasn&#8217;t clear. I don&#8217;t think Smooth is against the SBC or thinks it&#8217;s evil. I meant he&#8217;s through with it (as he said) and many who say that they are through with it are counting it off as useless and others are evil. Smooth never has said that, but I&#8217;ve read it in quite a few blogs of people who have &#8220;jumped off the ledge&#8221; of leaving the SBC.</p>
<blockquote><p>Journey still gives money to the Cooperative Program. As the senior leadership team here at Journey we decided to give to the Cooperative Program as a means of contributing to missions and supporting conservative theological training. We do not, however, identify ourselves as Southern Baptists, and you will not find any of us serving on this or that committee or going to this or that convention fighting for a voice. We just don&#8217;t care.</p></blockquote>
<p>I am very glad Journey gives to the Cooperative Program. This finances my seminary education in two ways: first, a portion of CP funds goes to SBC seminaries, including Southeastern. Second, since I am a member of Journey &#8211; a church giving to the CP, I get a 50% tuition reduction. That&#8217;s stinkin&#8217; awesome. While it saddens me that &#8220;We just don&#8217;t care&#8221; about having a voice in the convention, I know that&#8217;s not the case of all members of Journey, as I am a member of Journey who cares about turning the SBC around. I may be the only one, but that&#8217;s OK.</p>
<blockquote><p>Why bother? Because of the missional impact the convention can have, you say? Again, I&#8217;m responsible for me. Maybe others are called to &#8220;save&#8221; the convention. But the reason that &#8220;<a href="http://johncheatham.com/2009/03/02/re-on-the-effectiveness-of-reforming-from-within/" target="_blank">young people are jumping ship by the thousands</a>&#8221; and that Dr. Reid has to talk &#8220;<a href="http://alvinreid.com/archives/471" target="_blank">good younger men off the ledge from leaving the SBC</a>&#8221; is because saving the convention is not our calling.</p></blockquote>
<p>I totally agree that we are responsible for ourselves. But one thing that I&#8217;ve learned at Journey is we are part of something bigger than ourselves. And while I also agree that the convention is not our calling, the convention, when course-corrected occasionally to line up better with God&#8217;s calling, could be used by God to help many people in many nations to know Him.</p>
<p>While Smooth and I may disagree regarding whether or not to have hope in the SBC, we are co-laborers in the Gospel at Journey and still somehow manage to get along. Heck, we&#8217;re even in the same small group!</p>
<p>And finally, lest you think this blog has become a blog about all things SBC and nothing else, I guarantee that my next post will mention absolutely nothing about that. It will probably be something theological or technical, since I love talking about that stuff. Politics? Not so much.</p>
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		<title>Re: On the Effectiveness of Reforming from Within</title>
		<link>http://johncheatham.com/2009/03/02/re-on-the-effectiveness-of-reforming-from-within/</link>
		<comments>http://johncheatham.com/2009/03/02/re-on-the-effectiveness-of-reforming-from-within/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 22:56:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>John Cheatham</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[blog]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mark Driscoll]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[sbc]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[sebts]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[seminary]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johncheatham.com/?p=182</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My previous post inspired Smooth to comment in his own blog post. Now I&#8217;m inspired to comment on his blog post (not him eating his own toenail, either &#8211; crazy youth pastor stuff). No, his post On the Effectiveness of Reforming from Within. Smooth quotes Baptist21 (a group of young supporters/reformers of the SBC): We [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My previous post inspired <a title="Smooth Via" href="http://smoothvia.com/">Smooth</a> to comment in <a title="Smooth Via - &quot;Wish you would step back from that ledge my friend...&quot;" href="http://smoothvia.typepad.com/smoothvia/2009/02/wish-you-would-step-back-from-that-ledge-my-friend.html">his own blog post</a>. Now I&#8217;m inspired to comment on his blog post (not him <a title="Smooth Via - That Was Smooth... Eating his own toenail" href="http://smoothvia.typepad.com/smoothvia/2009/02/that-was-smooth-eating-his-own-toenail.html">eating his own toenail</a>, either &#8211; crazy <a title="Journey Students" href="http://www.takeajourney.org/students">youth pastor stuff</a>). No, his post <a title="Smooth Via - On the Effectiveness of Reforming from Within" href="http://smoothvia.typepad.com/smoothvia/2009/02/on-the-effectiveness-of-reforming-from-within.html">On the Effectiveness of Reforming from Within</a>.</p>
<p>Smooth quotes <a title="Baptist21" href="http://www.baptisttwentyone.com/">Baptist21</a> (a group of young supporters/reformers of the SBC):</p>
<blockquote><p>We at Baptist21, along with several “older-40” pastors and leaders in our denomination highly disagree with this inaccurate portrait of Mark Driscoll and ask that you stay in our denomination and let your voice be heard. We desire to affect change in our denomination and the world by remaining focused on what matters&#8230;</p></blockquote>
<p>and responds with</p>
<blockquote><p>People like myself who have gotten the shaft time and time again find ourselves wondering whether there are many more than just the guys at Baptist21 and &#8220;several other &#8216;older-40&#8242; pastors and leaders.&#8221;</p></blockquote>
<p>Well, you have one working for you, man. I still have some hope for the SBC and haven&#8217;t &#8220;jumped off the ledge&#8221; of leaving the SBC yet. I&#8217;m currently attending <a title="Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary" href="http://sebts.edu/">SEBTS</a> and am extremely encouraged by what <a title="President Daniel L. Akin" href="http://danielakin.com/">President Danny Akin</a> has done there and throughout the convention to further the &#8220;Great Commission Resurgence.&#8221; You can read more about it on <a title="Between the Times" href="http://betweenthetimes.com/">Between the Times</a>, a blog maintained by he and a number of other Southeastern faculty.</p>
<blockquote><p>I think of Erasmus of Rotterdam. He lived during the reformation and even offered his own scathing reviews of the Roman Catholic Church in works such as <span>In Praise of Folly</span>. But he was committed to reforming from within. Erasmus, of course, has his place in history, but he essentially failed at his efforts in reforming the church. Martin Luther, likewise had thoughts of reformation from within. He finally realized, however, that if reformation was going to happen it was going to happen from without rather than from within. Much of what we have as protestants today, we owe to Martin Luther. Where would we be if he never decided to step outside the Convention&#8230; um.. I mean Catholic Church?</p></blockquote>
<p>Erasmus didn&#8217;t succeed in reforming the Catholic Church. That is true. Luther also tried and failed to reform it. However, the SBC has been reformed recently (as Smooth alluded to) from liberal theology. There is hope. It is possible to reform it.</p>
<p>As my wife pointed out, Jesus came as a Jew who came for mankind. He didn&#8217;t ditch the Jews to do it, either. He used Jewish disciples to spread news about him to the rest of the world. Even though the Pharisees and Sadducees were sectarians (people not in or of the world) and syncretists (people in and of the world), and that&#8217;s all the Jews knew of religion, Jesus used those people to bring his truth to the world.</p>
<blockquote><p>Personally, I think Erasmus was scared. Sometimes I wonder if determination to save the convention is bred not out of conviction but fear. Staying within the SBC is safe and familiar.</p></blockquote>
<p>He may very well have been scared. And I agree; that is a bad reason not to step out. The reason I stay with the SBC is because of why they were founded &#8211; to reach the lost. The sole purpose for the founding of the SBC is to form a sending agency for foreign missionaries to which multiple churches could give (now a part of the SBC called the International Mission Board &#8211; IMB). It eventually grew to home missions (now the North American Mission Board &#8211; NAMB), higher education (now six seminaries &#8211; SBTS, SEBTS, SWBTS, MWBTS, &amp; GGBTS), and education of everyone (now Lifeway and Baptist Press). These are categories off the top of my head, but you get my point. All these entities together do a ton of good for the kingdom. Should we just abandon them and set out a different way? Or should we guard them with the truth of Scripture and the power of the Holy Spirit and let God use the insanely powerful infrastructure that He&#8217;s been using for over 150 years? (When we release control to Him, that is.)</p>
<p>Brothers and sisters, the SBC is not evil. It is not beyond saving. Young people are jumping ship by the thousands. Here&#8217;s exactly what the SBC stands for (summary <a title="Wikipedia - SBC" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Baptist_Convention#Position_statements">from wikipedia</a> of <a title="SBC - Position Statements" href="http://www.sbc.net/aboutus/positionstatements.asp">SBC&#8217;s position statements</a>) :</p>
<ul>
<li><strong>Priesthood of all believers</strong>—Laypersons have the same right as ordained ministers to communicate with God, interpret Scripture, and minister in Christ&#8217;s name</li>
<li><strong>Soul competency</strong>—the accountability of each person before God</li>
<li><strong>Creeds and confessions</strong>—Statements of belief are revisable in light of Scripture. The Bible is the final word.</li>
<li><strong>Women in ministry</strong>—Women participate equally with men in the priesthood of all believers. Their role is crucial, their wisdom, grace and commitment exemplary. Women are an integral part of Southern Baptist boards, faculties, mission teams, writer pools, and professional staffs. The role of pastor, however, is specifically reserved for men.</li>
<li><strong>Church and state</strong>—a free church in a free state. Neither one should control the affairs of the other.</li>
<li><strong>Missions</strong>—We honor the indigenous principle in missions. We cannot, however, compromise doctrine or give up who we are to win the favor of those we try to reach or those with whom we desire to work.</li>
<li><strong>Autonomy of local church</strong>—We affirm the autonomy of the local church.</li>
<li><strong>Cooperation</strong>—The Cooperative Program of missions is integral to the Southern Baptist genius.</li>
<li><strong>Sexuality</strong>—We affirm God&#8217;s plan for marriage and sexual intimacy—one man and one woman, for life. Homosexuality is not a valid alternative lifestyle.</li>
<li><strong>Sanctity of life</strong>—At the moment of conception, a new being enters the universe, a human being, a being created in God&#8217;s image.</li>
</ul>
<p>I agree with these 100%. A convention that supports these things is a great thing. That&#8217;s why I&#8217;m looking forward to the day that the convention applies the same effort to contextualizing the gospel to America as it&#8217;s working on doing contextualizing the gospel to the ends of the earth. That will truly be a wonderful day!</p>
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		<title>Summit Church</title>
		<link>http://johncheatham.com/2009/01/19/summit-church/</link>
		<comments>http://johncheatham.com/2009/01/19/summit-church/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jan 2009 20:12:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>John Cheatham</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[blog]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[multi-site]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[theology]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johncheatham.com/?p=138</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There&#8217;s another multi-site church near Journey. It&#8217;s named the Summit Church and its pastored by J.D. Greear. I&#8217;ve met him and heard him speak in chapel and he&#8217;s stinking smart. He just blogged about why his church is multi-campus. It&#8217;s a great read, so I decided to repost it here. Here&#8217;s what he says. Why [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s another multi-site church near <a title="Journey Church" href="http://takeajourney.org/">Journey</a>. It&#8217;s named the <a title="The Summit Church" href="http://www.summitchurch.cc/">Summit Church</a> and its pastored by J.D. Greear. I&#8217;ve met him and heard him speak in chapel and he&#8217;s stinking smart. <a title="JDGreear.com" href="http://jdgreear.com/">He just blogged</a> about <a title="JDGreear.com - Multi-Campus" href="http://jdgreear.com/my_weblog/2009/01/why-the-summit-church-believes-that-the-multicampus-church-model-is-biblically-sound-practically-wis.html">why his church is multi-campus</a>. It&#8217;s a great read, so I decided to repost it here. Here&#8217;s what he says.</p>
<p><span id="more-138"></span></p>
<h3><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Why the Summit Church believes that the Multi-Campus Church Model is Biblically Sound, Practically Wise, and Pastorally Helpful</span></h3>
<p>In 2005 our congregation moved to a multi-site strategy out of what we perceived to be a necessity. God graciously was bringing to our doors more than we could handle. We were doing as many morning services as we could in our rented-school facility, and were now having to turn people away. So, we opened another campus 3 miles down the road, where I preached inbetween our other services at the main campus.</p>
<p>Since that time, we have concluded that the multi-campus model for the church is both Biblically sound and practically helpful, and embraced multi-campus as a strategy for growing our church and reaching our city, not merely as a temporary way to deal with a space problem. We currently are a church of about 3000 attenders, meeting in 4 campuses throughout Raleigh-Durham, NC. We plan to add two new sites in the fall of 2009.</p>
<p>We believe that at the core of our mission as a church is the commission to seek and save the lost in our city. We are also a church, however, who believes that faithful ecclesiology must trump pragmatism. We believe that being multi-campus is the best way to do both.</p>
<p>Let me first acknowledge that many of the criticisms of various multi-site churches I find ready agreement with. Many multi-site environments encourage consumerism, foster anonymity, are built on a cult of personality, and have more foundation in the wisdom of men than of God. That said, here is why we enthusiastically embrace the multi-site strategy as biblically allowable, practically wise, and pastorally helpful.</p>
<h3><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Why the Summit Church believes the multi-campus model is biblically sound</span></h3>
<p><strong>A. The essence of a local church is a covenant, not a manner of assembly</strong></p>
<p>I have heard the objection to our multi-site strategy, &#8220;A church is primarily an assembly, and to assemble means all the people come together in one place. Multi-campus fundamentally skews that.&#8221; The essence of a New Testament local church, however, is a covenant believers make with one another. Assembly is a much-needed function, but covenant is the essence. Where in the New Testament does it say that &#8220;all people must assemble at the same time?&#8221; To say that &#8220;assembly&#8221; means all people in one place at one time is suggestive at best. (To note: The objection that believers who meet separately for corporate worship cannot be one body in Christ would apply also to the multi-service church, not just the multi-campus church.)</p>
<p>In our judgment, the New Testament does not demand a church assemble all together in one place, at one time, each week. As John Piper notes, we have a clear biblical example of the opposite! The new congregation in Jerusalem is frequently referred to in the singular, one &#8220;church&#8221; (Acts 8:1; 11:22; 15:4). They obviously, however, had to meet in different times and locations. Historians tell us there was no space in Jerusalem available to the disciples large enough for 3000 plus people to meet on a weekly basis. Furthermore, it also appears that many of the house churches in the 1st century churches came together to celebrate the Lord’s supper as one citywide church (see 1 Cor 11:17–20; Romans 16:5).</p>
<p>Those who insist that a local church must assemble in one place at one time are taking one manner of function from some local churches in the New Testament and insisting it be normative for all congregations in all times. This is, at best, an argument from silence, and, as demonstrated, one to which even the first church did not appear to conform.</p>
<p><strong>B. The New Testament gives guidelines, but not specific details, on how to best organize a congregation for pastoral care and effective ministry</strong></p>
<p>John Piper notes, &#8220;Neither here (in Acts 2) nor elsewhere in the New Testament do we get detailed instructions on how to organize the church for pastoral care and worship and teaching and mobilization for ministry. There were elders in the churches (they show up very soon in the Jerusalem church) and there were deacons, and there were goals of teaching and caring and maturing and praying and evangelizing and missions. But as far as details of how to structure the church in a city or in an area or even one local church with several thousand saints – there are very few particulars.&#8221;</p>
<p><strong>C. The Apostles used the technology available to them to preach<em> in abstentia</em></strong></p>
<p>It is clear in Acts 2–8 that all 8000 (some scholars estimate the actual size at the end of Acts 3 would have been about 10,000) were not gathering weekly in one place to hear one teaching pastor give a message. Perhaps the Apostles were a teaching team who each rotated between the houses. Maybe sometimes they got together in small assembly places (campuses). Yet they were one church.</p>
<p>We know that many of Paul’s letters were intended to be circulated for reading throughout the churches. If Paul could have cut a DVD from the Philippian jail and passed that around, I can’t see why he wouldn’t have done so. I know that some here might say, &#8220;Well, yeah, but Paul’s letters were the inspired Bible. He was an Apostle. That’s why his letters could be passed around.&#8221; We know, however, that there were several of Paul’s letters passed around that were not &#8220;inspired&#8221; (think the middle Corinthian letter).</p>
<p>If they had had the technology, don’t you think Peter might have burned a DVD of himself and sent that around? If they could have simulcast John’s recounting of his last meeting with Christ, don’t you think they would have done it? Is there anything that says that we must be able to see the actual flesh and blood of the preacher? Those who say that video removes the &#8220;flesh and blood, incarnational&#8221; nature of Gospel-preaching would also have to question the use of voice amplification. If it is argued that video removes the incarnational nature of preaching, a similar argument could be made that God did not intend churches to ever be bigger than could be comfortably heard by an unamplified voice, because in so doing it would remove the touchability of the pastor. Obviously, such questions go beyond a responsible interpretation of Scripture.</p>
<p>This is not to say that all technology is allowable or helpful, because there are times that the medium of the message can affect perception of the message itself. The use of technology that was unavailable in Biblical times is a difficult subject, and we must be both open-minded and cautious in appropriation.</p>
<h3><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Why the Summit Church believes the multi-campus strategy can be practically wise</span></h3>
<p><strong>A. A multi-campus model is an acceptable, if not better, alternative to addressing a church’s growth than building bigger buildings, multiplying services, or planting new churches.</strong></p>
<p>When a church grows, it faces a few options. It might decide it is big enough and tell people they should find another church in the area to go to. For obvious reasons, this a terrible option. The Apostles did not turn away the 5000 new believers in Acts 2, even when they surely were overwhelmed with the problems these new believers posed. As John Piper said, &#8220;The question is no longer whether we’ll be a megachurch, but what kind of megachurch we will be.&#8221;</p>
<p>A growing church then as 3 options: building bigger buildings, multiplying services at one campus, or planting new churches.</p>
<p><em>The multi-campus strategy is a more financially responsible response to growth than is building a huge building.</em></p>
<p>Buildings are expensive. Large buildings are enormously expensive. Large auditoriums (that seat several thousand people) are difficult to use for other purposes.</p>
<p>The multi-campus model allows churches to save much of the money usually spent on a building. Venues in which smaller congregations to meet are much more plentiful and can be rented on a Sunday, and, if owned, they can be used throughout the week for other purposes.</p>
<p>Jim Toberlein, who has written a great deal on the multi-campus movement, notes that a multi-campus strategy is usually a zero-sum games. Most campuses will make up the money used in start up costs within the first year of existence.</p>
<p><em>In many cases, it will be more effective to add new venues than it will to multiply services at any one location.</em></p>
<p>The church might decide to multiply services, but you quickly reach a limit of how many any one location or pastor can handle. Also, as will be discussed below, evangelism and ministry are more effective when people are closer to their assembly place.</p>
<p><em>Church planting usually will not effectively solve the space issues of a congregation.</em></p>
<p>Some say that when a church reaches capacity it should just plant a new church. This is certainly a good option. However, most studies show that church planting will not alleviate space needs at any one campus. Many churches find that even if you can convince 200 of your people to go and start a new church, they end up making up that growth in the original congregation within a few months. In other words, even if you plant 10 churches out of your church in 10 years, chances are that you will still be dealing with space problems each year. Furthermore, finding the people willing to leave their church to plant a new one as well as the leader who can do it are both difficult! Church planting will not provide a solution for space issues. So, by all means, plant churches, but in order to steward the people God is bringing to the original campus, you’ll need a different solution! <em>Multiplying campuses is not an alternative to church planting; it is an alternative to multiplying services, building a larger building, or turning people away.</em></p>
<p>Furthermore, as demonstrated in the next point, not only does multiplying campuses not replace church planting, we have found it facilitates it.</p>
<p><strong>B. The multi-campus strategy facilitates church planting</strong></p>
<p>The multi-campus strategy does not preclude church planting, it fosters it! Not every church planter is equipped to be a senior teaching pastor. Campus pastors need to be men who are gifted leaders and good communicators, but not necessarily called teachers. Many guys, who are great leaders and pastors do not enjoy doing what I do each week, spending 20+ hours preparing messages and deciphering vision. As campus pastors they exercise leadership within their gifts in a way that they could not as church planters, where they must devote an exceptional amount of time to study. Many of those not gifted or wired to be senior leader or primary teaching pastor would still make ideal campus pastors.</p>
<p>As you plant new campuses, you will notice some who begin to demonstrate the gift set to lead independent churches. This seems to be how the Jerusalem church operated. They noticed leaders emerging in the ministry who had the capacity to plant churches and they sent them out.</p>
<p>Finally, it has been our experience that multiple campuses provide a leadership pipeline for developing church planters. It provides a place to hone the skills necessary for teaching and leadership. The multi-campus strategy is integral to our church planting strategy.</p>
<p>Thus, we have not found that the multi-campus strategy does not in any way eclipse church planting. In fact, it provides an opportunity to determine who has the right gift set to plant and pastor. As it stands now, new churches face an over-50% failure rate. Wouldn’t it be helpful to have an inbetween stage where leadership abilities are able to be tested?</p>
<p><strong>C. The closer a congregation meets to where the people it is trying to reach live, the more effective can be its evangelism and community outreach.</strong></p>
<p>Being closer to where the people live helps you engage them, invite them to your services, and perceive the needs of the local community. Our desire is for everyone in our community (the Triangle) to be no more than 15 minutes from a thriving evangelical church or a Summit congregation.</p>
<p><strong>D. The multi-campus church is better suited for the post-pastor succession.</strong></p>
<p>It is rare, in every generation, for one pastor to be able to hold the attention of several thousand people each Sunday. Many churches with one of those pastors built an auditorium to hold the audience, but for whatever reason the successor did not have the same ability. While grateful that the church attempted to be a steward of those God was bringing to them, how depressing it is to walk into one of those huge, nearly empty sanctuaries on a Sunday now!</p>
<p>If our church is 10,000 people big, we believe that it would be better to have 10 campuses of 1000, who identify with 10 campus pastors, rather than 1 campus of 10,000 who identify only with the 1. If the lead pastor passes on, it is easier to find 10 pastors to lead 1000 than 1 who can continue to lead the 10,000. The many empty, depressing monuments now polluting the American landscape are evidence of that.</p>
<h3><span style="text-decoration: underline;">How the Summit Church believes a multi-campus strategy can be pastorally helpful</span></h3>
<h3>A. The multi-campus model allows us to enjoy the pastoral benefits afforded by both a large and small congregation.</h3>
<p>It is undeniable that large churches face pastoral issues. (It should be noted, however, that a landmark study done by Rodney Stark in 2007 showed that megachurches had more intimacy and better pastoral care than smaller churches.) That said, it is easier for people to slip in and out of a large congregation unnoticed. Here is why we believe that the multi-campus model is the best way for us to address the pastoral needs of our congregation.</p>
<p>One of the primary criticisms of a multi-campus church is that you create disparate groups of people who will never know each other—perhaps never see each other! Realistically speaking, however, this happens also at any multi-service church. For that matter, it happens at any church above 200! The hardest ecclesiological shift for me was not in going to multiple campuses, but in growing larger than 400 members! At that point I realized that I couldn’t know every member in a meaningful way and they wouldn’t all know each other, either. Large churches of all types have members who do not know each other, and not every pastor knows every member.</p>
<p>Of large churches, perhaps the multi-campus large church most effectively addresses that problem, however. Because the venues are smaller, it is easier for campus pastors and elder representatives to keep up with those that come. Smaller venues reduce anonymity. It is easier for our members to be known by a pastor, be under the care and governance of our church elders, and served by campus deacons at a smaller campus rather than a large one.</p>
<p>At the same time, the multi-campus model allows its members the advantages of a larger congregation. Congregations often grow large because many people find the gifts of one pastor-teacher edifying, and the multi-campus model allows for the stewardship of that gift. Larger congregations are able to offer many ministries that smaller congregations cannot. Large congregations often can put more weight and momentum behind their ministries. John Piper writes: &#8220;Worship in larger gatherings with other believers whom we don&#8217;t know personally can be powerful (the way a whole battalion gathered before battle to hear the commander&#8217;s challenge is powerful even though the soldiers don&#8217;t all know each other).&#8221;</p>
<p><strong>B. The multi-campus strategy is an excellent way for a large church to develop and maximize the use of leadership.</strong></p>
<p>I’ve often heard this: <em>&#8220;Why build the church so much around you? Do you really think there are no other good preachers in Raleigh-Durham? Why not develop other leaders and teachers?&#8221;</em></p>
<p>We have found that a multi-campus church is better at developing leaders than a single-location large church. My wife remarked to me the other day, &#8220;Have you ever noticed that some of your favorite staff members you no longer see each Sunday?&#8221; They are serving at one of 3 campuses I don’t usually get to on Sunday. These were guys I raised up, trained, and on which I had depended. Now, as campus pastors, they have the opportunity to lead in ways they didn’t when we were all at one place. And, in their wake, new leaders have emerged at the original campus.</p>
<p>We have more and better leaders as a multi-campus church than we did as a single-campus church.</p>
<p><strong>C. The multi-campus strategy can help protect against a cult of personality.</strong></p>
<p>I’ve often heard, &#8220;<em>The multi-site movement fosters a cult of personality by tying everyone to one mega-teacher.</em>&#8221; Leader-worship is certainly a danger in large churches, and unfortunately many large church leaders seem all too willing to foster it. However, the cult of personality can exist as much in a small, single-campus church—in fact, sometimes moreso! When I pastored a small church, my congregation seemed to think that my presence was necessary for everything of spiritual significance. I had to marry and bury everyone, and my people wanted me to resolve all problems and answer all questions. I tried to teach them otherwise, but their natural tendency was to be much more dependent on me than they are now that we are a multi-campus church! Summit Church members are now exposed, weekly, to many other Spirit-filled pastors in our church to whom they can look for leadership and ministry.</p>
<h3><span style="text-decoration: underline;">What the Summit Church is still wrestling with regarding the multi-campus strategy</span></h3>
<p><em>Does the &#8220;one body&#8221; ever need to assemble all together in one place? If so, how often?</em></p>
<p><em>What is the best way to organize budgeting and staff structures so that each campus has freedom to organize its ministries effectively while at the same we ensure each campus retains the DNA of the whole church?</em></p>
<p><em>How do we best do membership and discipline in the multi-campus model?</em></p>
<p><em>How can congregations vote on issues when people live too far from one another to be able to congregate often?</em></p>
<p><em>How far is too far when planting a new campus? Can one ‘local church’ have campuses all across the world?</em></p>
<p><em>If people rotate which campuses they attend, will that make it difficult for elders and other leaders effectively to watch over them?</em></p>
<p><em>How will we know when a campus would function better as an independent church?</em></p>
<h3><span style="text-decoration: underline;">Conclusion</span></h3>
<p>The multi-campus model is messy. As with all large churches, it is easier for things to fall through the cracks in multi-campus churches than it is in a single-campus, smaller church. Growth from evangelism always invites chaos and disorder into the church. But it is a wonderful and welcome problem. My wife and I sometimes rue the loss of the neatly-packaged, clean, simple life we had before kids. We lived without the worry, fear, chaos, frustration, and dirty diapers that dominate our lives now from dawn to dusk! But we wouldn’t trade it for the world! Our church will deal with the headaches of the multi-campus model if it means reaching more people for Jesus.</p>
<p>We must live with the holy tension of taking care of our body and constantly bringing new, immature sinners loaded with problems into our midst. The elders of the Summit Church believe that the best way for us to do both is to adopt an aggressive multi-campus strategy. The multi-campus approach, in our judgment, best allows us to be effective in evangelism, pastorally responsible over our members, and to develop leaders and church planters.</p>
<p>It is our prayer that in the next 40 years God will allow us to see 10 campuses and 20 church plants in Raleigh-Durham, as well as 1000 churches planted in cities around the world. For us, the argument comes down not on whether you do multi-campus but how it is done. Our responsibility is to do it in a way that is Biblical and God-honoring.</p>
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		<title>Theology of Multi-Site</title>
		<link>http://johncheatham.com/2008/12/11/theology-of-multi-site/</link>
		<comments>http://johncheatham.com/2008/12/11/theology-of-multi-site/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 00:23:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>John Cheatham</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[blog]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Journey]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[multi-site]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[theology]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johncheatham.com/?p=115</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The title of this post might make you think of a few different things. Some would ask the question &#8220;What does theology matter in issues of practicality?&#8221; Hopefully that&#8217;s not what you&#8217;re asking, as any church issue is a theological issue. That is because the church is the body of Christ and theology is the [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The title of this post might make you think of a few different things. Some would ask the question &#8220;What does theology matter in issues of practicality?&#8221; Hopefully that&#8217;s not what you&#8217;re asking, as any church issue is a theological issue. That is because the church is the body of Christ and theology is the study of God, who we as Christians believe is Christ.</p>
<p>A more common question with multi-site is &#8220;Why call it the same church when its really two churches, one which is watching a video of a pastor preach instead of having a live pastor preach there?&#8221; (This is actually only one model of multi-site, but it&#8217;s the one my church is using, so I&#8217;m not addressing the others right now.) This is the question I really want to answer, as I struggled with it when I first discovered that was my church&#8217;s vision.</p>
<p>The church, as I said earlier, is the body of Christ. A local church is how this is practically lived out &#8211; believers within a common geographic context meeting together as a family. In my tradition (baptistic) there is the need to hear the teaching of God&#8217;s Word and the expression of the ordinances &#8211; baptism and the Lord&#8217;s Supper or Communion. Journey does all of those things as one body, making it one church with multiple services, one of which is in a different location that the other three.</p>
<p>To answer the complaint that each campus should have it&#8217;s own pastor &#8211; our&#8217;s do. The campus that watches the preaching on video still has a campus pastor there for all pastoral needs. He actually is better able to minister to his flock there, since he doesn&#8217;t need to spend time during the week prepping for a sermon. We also are able to share resources between campuses, since we are still one church. Anyone who&#8217;s ever planted a church knows how important it is to have resources. Well, we do.</p>
<p>I just barely touched the issues, so what are some other issues out there? Or things you&#8217;d like me to dive deeper into? Or disagreements you have with this? Feedback is a wonderful thing.</p>
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		<title>Types of Churches</title>
		<link>http://johncheatham.com/2008/12/07/types-of-churches/</link>
		<comments>http://johncheatham.com/2008/12/07/types-of-churches/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Dec 2008 23:23:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>John Cheatham</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[blog]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[summary]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johncheatham.com/?p=99</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ed Stetzer writes about Influencing Churches on his blog. In this, is lists different problems that surface in churches. Here is his abbreviated list; the full list is in his book Comeback Churches. Institutionalized church&#8211;this is the church that has lost its way within the forms and programs of ministry. This church is just going [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a title="edstetzer.com" href="http://edstetzer.com">Ed Stetzer</a> writes about <a title="Influencing Churches" href="http://blogs.lifeway.com/blog/edstetzer/2008/07/influencing-churches-at-rev-ma.html">Influencing Churches</a> on his blog. In this, is lists different problems that surface in churches. Here is his abbreviated list; the full list is in his book <a title="Amazon.com - Comeback Churches" href="http://www.amazon.com/Comeback-Churches-Turned-Around-Yours/dp/0805445366/ref=relevagenera-20">Comeback Churches</a>.</p>
<ul>
<li>Institutionalized church&#8211;this is the church that has lost its way within the forms and programs of ministry. This church is just going through the motions and has forgotten the real purpose for which it exists.</li>
<li>Voluntary association church&#8211;this church functions more like a democracy rather than based on New Testament principles. Competing factions help maintain the &#8220;status quo&#8221; because of a desire to keep everyone happy.</li>
<li>Unintentional church&#8211;this is the church that often has good intentions but have difficulty acting on those intentions. This church has a hard time embracing an intentional process for making disciples.</li>
<li>&#8220;Us four and nor more&#8221; church&#8211;this is the church that practically believes that growth will destroy their &#8220;sweet fellowship.&#8221; The desire is to maintain a &#8220;family feel&#8221; which can make it hard for new people to break into the group.</li>
<li>&#8220;We can&#8217;t compete&#8221; church&#8211;this is most often the smaller church that has concluded that there is no way they can compete with the program-rich larger churches, and so, they stop trying to be the church.</li>
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		<title>A Query Into The Use of Church Funds</title>
		<link>http://johncheatham.com/2008/11/29/a-query-into-the-use-of-church-funds/</link>
		<comments>http://johncheatham.com/2008/11/29/a-query-into-the-use-of-church-funds/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 01:51:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>John Cheatham</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[blog]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[emerging]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[finances]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[traditional]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johncheatham.com/?p=82</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As most of the recet posts, I originally posted this on my old blog. This seemed a particularly appropriate time to re-post it here, considering Pastor Jimmy&#8217;s recent video blog post about Journey&#8217;s sacrificial giving to bost Uganda and Honduras. Ok. This is a question that&#8217;s been in the back of my mind for a [...]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As most of the recet posts, I originally posted this on my old blog. This seemed a particularly appropriate time to re-post it here, considering <a title="Pastor Jimmy's recent video blog post" href="http://jimmycarroll.typepad.com/my_weblog/2008/11/weekend-recap.html" target="_blank">Pastor Jimmy&#8217;s recent video blog post</a> about Journey&#8217;s sacrificial giving to bost Uganda and Honduras.</p>
<blockquote><p>Ok. This is a question that&#8217;s been in the back of my mind for a while, but there have been recent additions to it. First, there is the concern of churches spending much money on themselves and their member&#8217;s comfort than on spreading the good news of salvation to the nations. Should a churches&#8217; missions budget be just a measley 10% all the time? One might argue that stuff is more expensive here in America than in third world countries. Might there at least be a reason to think of our use of money on ourselves vs. reaching the lost?</p>
<p>My second query may be more related to conventional vs. emerging churches (terms borrowed from <a title="Doc Reid" href="http://alvinreid.com/" target="_blank">Doc Reid</a>, my evangelism professor in <a title="Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary" href="http://sebts.edu/" target="_blank">seminary</a>). Conventional churches build buildings and spend much money on stained glass windows, steeples, organs, pretty wooden pews, ornate decorations, and the like. Emerging churches often use warehouse space and spend money on sound systems, lights, video, hazers, and the like.</p>
<p>They also critique each other on their use money and lack of worshipful surroundings. The conventional church (the high church tradition) uses their surroundings of ornate decorations to create a certain atmosphere of worship. The emerging church (or seeker-sensitive model) does the exact same thing (in the goal of the atmosphere), but through louder and more relevant music, video screens, etc. They both spend money on things that create a more worshipful atmosphere for their demographic. Seems logical to me.</p></blockquote>
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